tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7589105760911453392.post1713897437310920517..comments2024-03-25T03:15:21.061-07:00Comments on Art Contrarian: Combat Art: Worthwhile?Donald Pittengerhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11307228686847434740noreply@blogger.comBlogger12125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7589105760911453392.post-54820864553946147612013-09-05T17:24:33.913-07:002013-09-05T17:24:33.913-07:00You forgot the greatest combat artist ever Ivor He...You forgot the greatest combat artist ever Ivor Hele.william wrayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06471366449711429780noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7589105760911453392.post-59369393371662977162013-02-23T14:27:55.371-08:002013-02-23T14:27:55.371-08:00Dr Pittenger, what a philistine you are! Dr Pittenger, what a philistine you are! Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7589105760911453392.post-35368375898993483092012-07-10T00:34:01.208-07:002012-07-10T00:34:01.208-07:00This comment has been removed by the author.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06660817609931338865noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7589105760911453392.post-57215750516902999872012-06-08T20:20:26.048-07:002012-06-08T20:20:26.048-07:00Sir,
Came across this site by accident. Am frankl...Sir,<br />Came across this site by accident. Am frankly off put by the glib generalization of combat art. I wish to point out that artists like Howard Brodie (an old friend and mentor) and Kerr Eby actually did draw while the bullets were flying. They also had incredible drawing chops and were able to fill in the details after the fact. Howard in particular had a great visual memory. Brodie's drawing of an execution of a German soldier at the Battle of the Bulge was done right there- it also was the only drawing of his ever censored by the military. The current National Geographic has a very interesting if too short piece on combat artists from the Civil War-called "specials". And contrary to the comment you sort of toss off - these artists did get wounded,did suffer the same ravages as the troops they were covering, were on occasion captured and even died as spies because- well because they were drawing battlefield positions for their reference. Winslow Homer returned a changed person after what he went through covering the Civil War for Harpers. <br /><br />Camera work takes but a split second- drawings take time and an artist's perspective. There's a discovery process that takes place as the marks are put down in the heat of the moment, a jumble of lines that tell a story. There's a humanity in drawing/painting that is different from photography, a humanity arising from an intimacy with the subject. <br /><br />Your comment about combat art spending a lot of time covering mundane aspects of military life is true- war is what the cliche says- composed of long stretches of boredom interrupted by bursts of chaos. <br /><br />Your acknowledgement of Geoff Roecker's deeper knowledge of the subject is also on point. You really should do some more investigation before laying judgement. I'll be passing this posting to my fellow combat artists.VICTORhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00523598669381809467noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7589105760911453392.post-8155061329431055212011-03-03T18:59:12.077-08:002011-03-03T18:59:12.077-08:00Geoff -- Your knowledge of combat artists looks a ...Geoff -- Your knowledge of combat artists looks a lot deeper than mine. So I would have to research the names you mention before offering an opinion. That can't be immediately, because the wife and I are driving to California tomorrow morning for her two weeks of watching tennis at Indian Wells.<br /><br />Thank you for your interest in my posting.Donald Pittengerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11307228686847434740noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7589105760911453392.post-30838446644172382592011-03-03T14:03:37.021-08:002011-03-03T14:03:37.021-08:00I'd be interested in your opinion on works by ...I'd be interested in your opinion on works by such artists as Alfred Reed, Kerr Eby, and Tom Lea, all of whom saw a great deal of action. Reed followed the Union army during the American Civil War; Eby served as an ambulance driver in World War One and made combat landings with the Marines at Guadalcanal, Bougainville (where he contracted the disease that would kill him shortly after the war); Lea went to war as an artist aboard the USS Hornet, and later experienced Peleilu with the First Marine Division. Eby's combat work on Tarawa consists mostly of charcoal scribblings which he jotted down during the battle, and later turned into more polished pieces. Certainly he and Lea captured the horror of war more than the romanticism, and sometimes (I think) did so more evocatively than the photographers.<br /><br />I also wanted to point out that Sergeant Theo Hios (Ambush at Saipan) was an enlisted Marine and member of the Fourth Division photo pool - he served with the 24th Marines at Roi-Namur, Saipan, Tinian, and Iwo Jima (where he was awarded the Bronze Star for valor) as a combat photographer who carried a carbine along with his camera. He saw more than his share of action, yet felt compelled to express his experience in paint as well as film. Though I am not a particular fan of the piece you have listed here, Hios did serve on the front lines at Saipan, and there are many mentions of Japanese ambushes against his regiment. Odds are he did see something very like the action he depicted there; I couldn't say which has more artistic validity - that painting, or a picture of the action.<br /><br />(Also of interest: Hios did some of his paintings in the field. If you go to this link: http://graflex.org/GHQ/GHQ-15-3.pdf<br /><br />and scroll to page 5, you may see a photo of Hios on Iwo Jima, paintbrush in hand.)<br /><br />Cheers!<br />Geoff RoeckerJokerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09303827718732653434noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7589105760911453392.post-16750304240735043922011-01-25T21:24:05.356-08:002011-01-25T21:24:05.356-08:00Don, yes we definitely agree that the best combat ...Don, yes we definitely agree that the best combat art is created back in the studio. It seems to be a disappointingly unromantic fact of art that the best work is done a safe distance from the source of one's passionate inspiration. It's a little like sex and art; artists who try to work while their nostrils are still flaring generally produce third rate art. (This is known as the "you can't drool and draw" rule). I guess artists require some distance for reflection.David Apatoffhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11293486149879229016noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7589105760911453392.post-22787527993107686922011-01-24T10:04:30.946-08:002011-01-24T10:04:30.946-08:00David -- Agreed that there are exceptions. But mo...David -- Agreed that there are exceptions. But most of the official war art I see in books and the Internet are non-combat scenes of the kind I discussed in the post.<br /><br />To simplify the post, I didn't deal with artists hired by corporations and publications, the latter probably having war correspondent status.<br /><br />When combat is in progress, I would assume that it would be difficult for an artist near the action to do more than scribble an occasional sketch -- a photographer with a Leica would do a better job.<br /><br />From your first two paragraphs, I gather we can agree that the best combat art usually comes from someone who has be in or near the action and can recreate a sense of it back in the studio.Donald Pittengerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11307228686847434740noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7589105760911453392.post-47861637212830670122011-01-23T23:45:43.795-08:002011-01-23T23:45:43.795-08:00Don, I recognize that much of the most evocative w...Don, I recognize that much of the most evocative war art is not done on the spot by by eyewitnesses, but by imaginative artists removed from the experience. Stephen Crane, who never saw war but whose book, The Red Badge of Courage, is often cited for its authenticity, is a prime example. <br /><br />Putting that aside, I think your definition of a war artist as one who is commissioned by the government to put together official images may eliminate some of the most interesting test cases, while focusing on propagandists. Goya, for example, was not commissioned by the government to paint the war but was the prototypical war artist. He did not witness the May 3rd executions, but he was a first hand witness to some of the disasters of wars and was tormented by what he saw. Do you think that showed up in his work? <br /><br />One "official" war artist I like is Ivor Hele, the Australian artist who was able to satisfy his military clients while simultaneously producing some first class war art from sketches that were made on site, while bullets were flying.David Apatoffhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11293486149879229016noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7589105760911453392.post-14631673752025771322011-01-10T08:20:09.820-08:002011-01-10T08:20:09.820-08:00I always thought that particular Dunn was too desi...I always thought that particular Dunn was too design-y -- which cost the picture some experiential force. I don't think it is a factual picture. But, again, it is truthful. There are at least 15 other Dunn pictures from that war that have more force, especially when seen in person. <br /><br />All Pyle's students could, through the imagination, provide the truth of a scene without providing the facts. Frank Schoonover, for instance, was lauded by WWI veterans for his depictions of battles he was never <a href="http://images6.fotki.com/v83/photos/1/133612/1023999/ARTschoon-vi.jpg" rel="nofollow">at</a> …or even <a href="http://www.rockingham.k12.va.us/ems/history_pages/wwi/twentymarines.jpg" rel="nofollow">near.</a><br /><br /><br />Incidentally, (and apologies in advance for a picayune point) but the phrase "proves the rule" has gotten gummed up since it was originally coined. You cannot prove a rule by pointing out an exception to it. This makes no logical sense. The correct usage is "proofs a rule" ... ("proofing" being the test for alcohol purity in the old days when an innkeeper might water down a bottle of gin to make a little extra money.) Thus, Dunn's work <i>tests</i> the rule.<br /><br />Thanks for the enjoyable blog!<br /><br />best,<br />kevkev ferrarahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09509572970616136990noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7589105760911453392.post-30620913602208648392011-01-08T09:56:20.510-08:002011-01-08T09:56:20.510-08:00Kev -- What images I posted were dictated by what ...Kev -- What images I posted were dictated by what I could scrape out of the Web. Nevertheless, they give the same impression found in publications I've seen. Basically, "combat art" by men commissioned for the job by the military tended to depict scenes that just as easily could have been photographed, in my opinion.<br /><br />Dunn is a rare case that proves the rule. As an illustrator he sought emotional connection and impact, and this clearly shows in the image I posted. Even his sketches of behind-the-lines scenes show swagger.<br /><br />I wonder about the scene I posted. It's remotely conceivable that he was half a block away, hiding in rubble or perhaps peeking through a broken window and saw two Marines patrolling. More likely, he witnessed a training exercise which inspired the painting.<br /><br />What's interesting from an artistic standpoint is that he doesn't highlight the men, but rather blends them into background and foreground shadow forms.Donald Pittengerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11307228686847434740noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7589105760911453392.post-49564727407715375362011-01-07T18:48:46.016-08:002011-01-07T18:48:46.016-08:00Cameras capture the light reflecting off facts for...Cameras capture the light reflecting off facts for the brief instant that the aperture is open to capture it.<br /><br />An experience is so much more than the light bouncing off facts. The point of great narrative art is not to give you the facts, but to give you the sense of the experience, using the facts as needed. Because the experience is more truthful than the facts. <br /><br />That some viewpoints taken by narrative painters necessarily put the viewer in a position of danger is exactly the point.<br /><br />Some of the examples you give are rather tame and decorative, and I would say, inappropriate to the task. However, Harvey Dunn's WWI pictures, which reside in the Smithsonian, have the force of experience. Which is why they couldn't be used for their original intended purpose, as propaganda for the war effort.kev ferrarahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09509572970616136990noreply@blogger.com